👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Hey guys! Welcome back to the PSALMS to God podcast. So last month I kicked off the month talking about the

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: So, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when someone says joy?

👩🏽 MOM: Happiness

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: I thought about joy in the sense of happiness, but to me joy is a much broader sense of happiness. I think about quotes like "Joy to the World," which is to me is a bigger, broader, sense of happiness. And happiness can be a short-term situation. I think you may accomplish something, or you finish something, and you're happy, but joy tends to last, in my opinion, a long time. For example, you to hear parents say, "my bundle of joy," which means it's a much longer lasting experience than just a moment of happiness.

👩🏽 MOM: Which is what you are, a bundle of joy.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: 😂 Well, thank you—I assume she was talking to me, but she might have been talking to my dad.

👩🏽 MOM: No, no, no. I was talking to you.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: OK. Thanks. So, I guess that goes into the question of whether happiness and joy are the same thing. And I think that both of you are saying that joy is something that has longevity and is long-term, versus happiness being something that's more temporary. 🐈 And I guess Bubbles is joining the podcast as a member of the family. I don't know if that was an agreement or a disagreement with that statement, but I think that's what I heard you guys were saying.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah, that's my take on Joy

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Well, that makes sense. A lot of people would agree with that. While I was doing the research for this episode, and I was looking up joy and happiness, and the differences between them, I found a lot of sermons and a lot of articles where people basically asserted that the difference between them is that happiness is circumstantial.[1][2] It's very, very dependent on the here and now, and what's happening. Whereas joy doesn't need a reason—like you're just joyous because you're joyous, because it's a Fruit of the Spirit and God made you have joy, or something like that. But interestingly, I found that there are a lot of people who think there is absolutely no difference between the two.[3][4] So, I kept digging and so while I was digging in that, I actually found this verse in Job—it's in Job 20:5. So it says, "the joy of the wicked has been brief and the happiness of the godless has lasted only a moment." And found it interesting because even though it was talking about the wicked there seems to be no distinction in the duration of time for the joy versus the happiness. There is basically a parallel statement, though the fact that it mentions both joy and happiness, kind of makes it seem like they mean two different things. Because if I've just told you that the joy was brief, why would I need to reiterate that happiness was brief? I would—that would basically be saying the same thing.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: So, I decided to do what any good Bible student would do and look up the original terminology. So because the foundation of our conversation about joy is on it being the Fruit of the Spirit, and the Fruit of the Spirit are listed in Galatians 5:22-23, I started with the New Testament translation. So, the New Testament was originally written in Greek, and the word that was originally used that is translated to "joy" is chara (χαρά).[5] And the definition of that word is "joy, gladness, or delight"[6]—which are all terms that we really associate with happiness.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: So then I decided to look for the word "happy" within the New Testament, and I couldn't find it—it could be my translation. You might be able to find it somewhere else, but I had a really hard time finding the word "happy" or "happiness" within the New Testament, so I just decided to go ahead and go ahead to the Old Testament and see what it said.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: So, within the Old Testament I was able to find examples of the word "happy" and the word "joy." And so the word in the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew, for Joy is simchah (שִׂמְחָה) and that is again meaning joy, gladness[7]—like I said things that we associate with happiness, but those were specific to joy. I was able to find a couple of words that were translated to "happy"—osher (אֹשֶׁר)[8] and esher (אֶשֶׁר)[9], which just said happy. But for the most part many of the occurrences that I found the word happy within the Old Testament, actually the word that was translated is also translated as "blessed."[10] So depending on what translation you have, you may have the word "blessed," or you may have the word "happy"—and those seem to be used interchangeably, which is very interesting when you go back to this Job 20, because then you're talking about joy and blessings instead of joy and happiness.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: And so, one of the thoughts that I had is that happiness could be a consequence of joy. It could be the blessing that you get from producing the Fruit of the Spirit that is joy, or the outcome if you will. What do you guys think about that?

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: I think, what I was thinking about joy—and I'm glad you did the research on the Bible, because I always refer to joy as more spiritual and more Biblical than happiness. Again I go back—and I do agree that happiness may be a result of the fact that you are joyful. And if you could be joyful all the time, that would assume you could be happy all the time. But you may be joyful because you're blessed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're happy all the time, because you may encounter some things that causes you to be stressful or not happy. But joy could still be a part of your character because you're joyful that, you know, Jesus Christ is alive, and He protects you and He blesses you, and He continues to take care of you. So in my instances, happiness is probably... I still see it as a short term, and like you say, I've never seen it used in the New Testament, that you know, is being referred to as someone being, you know, over happily in scripture. I hadn't read all the scripture, so I maybe not quoting it right, but I do think that joy is more spiritually inclined than just happy.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Yeah, and then of course, you know, because of the different translators and the different translations, your version might say blessed or happy. It really just depends on the translator. Yeah so, I was getting ready for this I decided to read up on all the verses I could find where they use happy or joy to try to get a consensus from the Bible. So the first occurrence of happy, that I found, was actually in Genesis 30[11] and it's Leah who is speaking. Leah was the wife of Jacob; she had just given birth to her second son, and she says that she's happy, and that other women will call her happy. Of course, when I went and dug into this verse, the Hebrew word that occurs there is actually one of the words that is in means blessed.[12] So she saying that she's blessed because she had a son, which makes sense.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: What really kind of sparked my interest though, was a usage of the word that means joy in 1 Samuel—it's in 1 Samuel 18:6. It's basically David and his troops have returned from battle; they returned victorious, and they are shouting for joy. But I thought it was interesting, because at the end of a battle, generally there are casualties on both sides. So even if you're victorious, there is a possibility that somebody died. I'd have to go back and reread this whole passage to remember if somebody died, or if this is one of the victories that God handed Israel without any casualties,[13] but I just thought that was interesting. Which kind of brought me into two thoughts.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: One, in the previous podcast, when we were talking about love[14] I talk to Devin about love being an action and not a feeling. So then it made me question: is joy an action and happiness a feeling? That that's something that I thought maybe plausible, that you know joy is really the action of acting like you're happy, but happiness is just the feeling—which I guess kind of goes back to the whole idea of it being circumstantial.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: But that made me ask the question, do you believe that there can be joy in the presence of sorrow? Or can there be sorrow in the presence of joy?[15]

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah I do. And that's why I say it's more Biblically inclined, because joy—even though, like you said, they came back from the battle, I'm sure several people or more people were killed in battle—it could have been some of their close friends, but they were joyful in the fact that they had won the battle.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Let me ask you a question, and see you can relate to this: when you... You were happy when you finished your dissertation, 'cause that was one final point that you had to get over. Were you happy or joyful when you came across the stage and they hooded you?

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Umm... That's a good question. I feel like when I walked across the stage, I was exhausted more than anything, but if I had to say, I think that when I walked across the stage I was just happy. And I think that I felt joy when I put the diploma on the wall.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: OK. Well, maybe I asked the question, but in the final analysis which stays with you more, the happiness of knowing that you just finished that, or the joyfulness of knowing that you went through all of that and have completed and had earned your PhD?

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Yeah, I think it was the joy. I mean when you look back it was joy, but in the moment it was happiness.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: OK

👩🏽 MOM: Yeah, and it goes back, I think, what you said from the beginning: the happiness, you said you were happy when you went cross the stage, so that took what? About a minute? 2 minutes or something like that?

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Um hmm

👩🏽 MOM: So it was a short-lived thing, whereas your degree on the wall, you can look at it all the time, you think about it, your work and everything is a result of that degree, then that is joy and it's a long term thing. I think joy gives energy.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Oh I like that!

👩🏽 MOM: Yeah

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: I like it, too.

👩🏽 MOM: It gives you energy.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah it does. I never thought about it that way.

👩🏽 MOM: One of the things Michael and I talk a lot about, we're walking around, you can walk in the mall or somewhere and a lot of people don't think about this—I guess I'm a little analytical like you, in a way[16]—you can look at a person and tell their background, whether they're happy, sad. You can tell by the expression on their face, what kind of person they are. And majoring in elementary education, one of the things that I learned that I took a long way, is with children. If you're teaching a classroom you can tell, or even an infant, you can tell what kind of family life they've got by their joy, the expression on their face. If you see some babies, they're smiling, they look happy, and you see some of 'em, they look sad. I think that's a result of joy and energy that comes from those parents or from the family members of their environment, per se. That comes back down on that child. So joy is an energy that expands out, I think.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah I think she brought up a real interesting—I never thought about it as energy, but I know some cultures say that you have a positive energy that radiates from you, and you can tell from people. And that could be tied to the fact that these people are joyful, and that energy portrays a positive light of that individual, because you put on for positive energy rather than a negative energy. And I use to—most people when they're joyful are more energized than usually, if they're not.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Yeah, yeah. I remember the other day we were having this conversation about a similar thing. I had seen this picture and it was of this woman's kitchen, and the dishes were just piled high. It was so many dishes, and the caption said something like "This is what depression looks like." The whole idea being that while she was depressed, she didn't have the energy to do the dishes, and that's why there were so many dishes to be done. And so it makes sense that if sorrow is kind of the opposite of joy, and it's, you know, depression is something where you just have no energy, like my mom said, it would make sense that joy is an energy—that it is energy.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah. And she pointed that out, and a mother would know that. And that's why they say "a bundle of joy." Even though a mother knows that there's a lot of work to take care of a child, and she's happy that she had the kid or the child, but a bundle of joy means that she is willing to sacrifice and give up the energy that's needed to take care of child in the middle of the night when it needs a bottle, or when it needs a diaper change, or when it is hurt. And I think that's why they say it's a bundle of joy, because it's a continuing blast even though it's a major undertaking to raise and take care of a child because it does take a lot of energy to do that.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: So what I hear is that you're describing the joy that a mother would have with their child kind of the same way you would describe love. Because a mother knows that, you know, when the baby is born, you know, they're going to cry and and keep them up all night, they're going to have to change their diaper, you know, there's the terrible twos as they get older, when they become a teenager they talk back—there's a lot of things that go on that I'm sure are very frustrating when you're trying to raise a child, but at the same time there's this knowledge that the end goal is going to be worth it. When I'm sure they're probably moments in between that are worth it and so it's kind of sort of this delayed gratification type of thing, which requires patience—which is the next fruit of the spirit that we'll end up talking about—but I hear kind of the same thing with joy, because it's the same concept. So they're kind of related in the sense that it's relying more so on the action and trusting in what's going to happen than just dwelling on your feelings in the moment.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Right

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: So motherhood is one way that people experience joy or being a parent, but how else do you think you can experience joy, or what brings you joy? And when do you think you've been the most joyful?

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Well, for me, I think, and you hear people say it, and I think it's an added truth, I was probably the most joyful when I had the least. I think the more you gather, the more responsibilities come along, it tends to cut into your joy a lot when you do that. So, I probably was most, the most joyful when I had the less, the least amount of responsibility. I don't know about you...

👩🏽 MOM: I think that's true, too. I think another thing about joy and that gives you joy, coming up I learned one—well I learned a lot of things, but—one important thing I'm always telling Michael is, it's how you perceive things and how you look at things. I try to always look at things as the glass is half-full, rather than the glass is half-empty. So for me, to bring me joy, is to look at things in a positive aspect. So I I take things, when something bad maybe happening to me or whatever around my environment, I try to think of something positive to look at or to look at it in a positive way and try to make something positive out of it. So Michael is right, when you have less, a lot of times, you learn how to balance and how to do things, and you're not extravagant or anything like that—we're still not extravagant, but you know. A person with less, I think a lot of times may be a lot happier than a person has everything. You look at these actors and actresses and stuff on TV, and you say "man I wish I had their money!" Or these athletes and stuff. But a lot of them, if you hear about them on the news, they're not happy. So a lot of the glass as half-empty, rather than half-full. They don't take what they've got and use it in a positive direction. So they're not happy, they're not joyful, they're not joyous.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: And I don't know if I answered your question. I went to the least was the most joyful, but I think your question was what other things bring joy. I think for me, the other things that bring joy is—and you probably know this as well as I do—is getting out with my animals, and seeing that they're taken care of. When I'm out in the yard, doing plants or yard work, that I know that you and your mama enjoy, I think that brings a sense of joy to me. I think it's a much more deeper feelings than just being happy I got the grass cut. I think the joy comes in at knowing that you guys would say "wow the yard looks good," or "the plants looks good." Or I planted trees and your momma can still break flowers off 'em and take 'em to work. It's a sense of—and I think that goes back again to what we talked about joy being a long-term, to me, versus just finishing up a short-term happiness thing. And I think the other thing that brings you joy is when you look around, and you see all the devastation and all the things around you, the blessings that God has bestowed upon you continues to make you joyful and thankful that you have, and continues to be able to continue on, is joyful to me.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: I think I got a little mix of both of your perceptions. So I definitely agree with my mom that perception is key, and your perspective is key. I remember one of the first jobs I ever had, when we went through training they gave us this quote "perception is reality," and that really stuck with me, because I don't know. Just, if you perceive things to be working for your good, then things typically turn out good. And when you perceive things to be negative, it just ends up negative, because it's how you react to the situation. So I definitely agree with my mom there. But then like my dad, I definitely find joy in nature. I used to follow him around on the farm. I can't really have a farm in South Florida which makes me sad, but I do have Bubbles, and I love seeing like the random ducks and birds and cranes that are always around in my neighborhood. I'm growing plants; I'm always sending my parents pictures of the plants that I grow because I don't know there's something that makes me happy about it, and dare I say peaceful. I think there's something about being out in nature that is very peaceful, which is interesting, because I think that could relate to the differentiation between joy and happiness—which peace, by the way, is another Fruit of the Spirit that we'll get into later in the series—but just like when I graduated. In the moment, when I was happy, there's still a lot of stress and, you know, hype around the situation, but when I got my diploma and put it on the wall, I was at peace with everything that happened. I was at peace with the final outcome. So, I think peace could be like apart of the joy.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: But Momma, you talked about how we perceive things, which I guess can give us joy by turning all situations into positive situations, but I don't know if I heard of a specific thing that brings you joy. If I were guessing, I would say that it's arts and crafts.

👩🏽 MOM: That's true. Family.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: OK

👩🏽 MOM: Yeah. And I don't like being outdoors cutting grass. Michael can tell you that.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE + 👩🏽 MOM + 👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: 😂

👩🏽 MOM: I like the foliage and stuff. I like the fall time of the year, so I like just going around and looking at foliage and walking, looking at trees turn and stuff like that. So, I like the outdoors, but I like it in a different aspect. I don't—I can't deal with physical part, that's mainly because of allergies, but I like the outdoors. I like plants and stuff. Joy is from that, and the family, and for moving furniture around the house.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: 😂

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Yeah

👩🏽 MOM: I love to move stuff around, as you know.[17]

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: And having known your mom for all my life—😂—I think, what brings her the most joy is a sense of peace, and you mentioned peace be in a part of joy. They speak about that joy and peace in the Bible. I think your mom is at peace with her surrounding, her family, her husband, her child, knowing that they're either safe or well taken care of, I think that's when she's the most joyful. Just having been around her and noticing her reaction. But when things are peaceful and settled, I think her joy and energy level rises much higher.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Yeah, knowing my mom, I would say that's probably true. I think that's probably true for a lot of people. But that being said, you know, there are a lot of crazy things that happen. There is a lot that can shift that balance, so that you're not necessarily in control, that you know your family is not taking care of, or you're not able to be at peace with what's going on around you. Every time I turn on the news, there's something crazy that's happened. There's all these school shootings, which no one can really feel at peace with this society that we live in behaving the way that it does. So the question is, how do we maintain joy? How do we keep the joy that we have?

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: For me, I think maintaining the joy is you have to continue to have faith knowing that Jesus is going to be your rock and your salvation. You have to look back and then look forward and count the blessings that you have received. You have to look around you and see what positions you may be as compared to how other people may be. And you have to keep an open mind, and I think Pam probably hit it on the head. You have to live your life with a positive outlook. And if you would keep a positive outlook, you know that there has to be some joy somewhere that will give you peace and relax you. And I think that's by having a strong faith. And I think you, as far as I'm concerned for me, has been an inspiration in maintaining and building a stronger faith and relationship with God, because if you go there and follow those instructions and directions, even in the midst of your most down time, you will find joy somewhere in your heart—and that's how I keep mine.

👩🏽 MOM: Well mine's a—I guess just like Michael said, I agree with everything he said. Also maintaining a positive attitude, and one thing he hit on I think is really important is having faith. A lot of people when times get rough they drop their head and they start getting involved in a whole lot of other things, such as drugs and stuff like that. You've got to have faith that you're going to make it. You've got to have a strong sense. A lot of people don't have that. I think that causes problems, but as long as you look at the class as half-full—I keep saying that—and having faith in the fact that you'll survive—like that song "I'll Survive"[18][19], I can't remember who sang that.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE +👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: 😂

👩🏽 MOM: If you have faith and strength and joy and a positive attitude, I think that will go a long way in how your future will be molded.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Yeah, so there's this saying, "fake it until you make it," and I think in this scenario, I think that is a great way to go about it. You know, you just fake like you're happy, you fake like you have joy, and eventually it will follow because of the mentality that you cultivated. One of the things that I really noticed having moved down here to South Florida, just talking to people and meeting people who have different experiences or who have been through different things—I know my dad's always repeating this, and there's a sign at the house that says this: counting your blessings. Because you see what other people are going through and you realize how blessed you truly are. It can be a humbling experience, but it can also remind you of how much joy you actually have. I know last year I started to get involved with this thing called Hope Ministries, it's part of the church that I go to, and they do a lot of things, but one of the things they do is feed the homeless every week. And so the first time I actually went with them to feed the homeless, I was in the process of closing on my house—I think I had just closed, and I think maybe I just gotten the key. So I hadn't moved in yet. So I was living in my apartment, but I had the key to my house. So basically I had two places to stay, and we went down to see the homeless people and to the give them the food, and of course they're sleeping on the sidewalk. They're sleeping under bridges, you know, they're in the grass, which was wet because it had been raining, and that was definitely a humbling experience to realize that at that moment I had two places to live and they had none. I mean there's obviously sorrow in that, but I just felt extremely blessed. And then of course to see that they were in such high spirits. They didn't seem depressed or anything like that. It just made me realize how much I should be happy or how much I have to be happy about, per se. And so again, I feel like seeing those blessings is what brings me joy or brought me joy, if that makes any sense.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah

👩🏽 MOM: Um hmm

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Does to me

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Do you guys have any other thoughts?

👩🏽 MOM: Well you brought up another interesting point about joy that I think all three of us can tune in on, and a lot of people probably don't think about this, but joy a lot of times is in helping other people, or seeing other people achieve. And like you said about the homeless and how instrumental y'all are in helping them, and that could be that or anything else in your everyday life. When you see that you've helped somebody and the express joy to you, or you know, you feel like you've done something to really help somebody—it's not that you get out and boast and brag about it, but you feel good within yourself. And that's a longevity thing where you can count your blessings, because you've helped somebody and you feel good within yourself for that. So that is another aspect of it, too—and that brings you joy, and it is longevity. And it may take you five minutes to help somebody change a tire, but you feel good within yourself a long time, because you've done something positive.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah, I think that the key to go back and say what really brings you joy. For me it's actually helping people or helping someone or something. I think back, just before you were born and right after you were born. When we were volunteer firefighters and just the camaraderie that we had with the folk we'd hang out with, which was a dangerous undertaking, but it brought joy to the whole force when you went to somebody and you were able to save their furniture or their house or their car or their belongings, that's a real joyful kind of thing. To know that you were able to do something to help somebody that that was helpless, or could not have done anything on their own. So the mere fact that you go around and do things for people—and we really enjoy this, it's us a joy for us when we go down and help feed the homeless, because you see how thankful and grateful those people are. So it makes you feel good inside, and joyful.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Yeah, I think, when we're kids—at least when I was a kid—it was always about what you're gonna get. You can't wait to open up gifts and see what everyone's brought you. But as you get older, even if it's not for the homeless or for you know, the less fortunate, it can just be for your friend or your family, but seeing other people's eyes light up when you've given them something, or being able to bring a smile to somebody's face. I feel like that gives you joy. And so it's like giving somebody else joy, gives you joy.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Well. That brings up an interesting thing. It brings my daddy and Gramps[20] into play, because my father was one that you could always get joy from whenever you gave him something. No matter what it was, he he lit up like a light bulb. And Gramps does that, anything you give him, whether he likes it or not, and you'll never know, but he'll light up like a light bulb and that's a sense of joy, that you made somebody feel good within themselves, because you took a minute to give or say a kind word or whatever. I think all of those, and I guess that's where I go into joy encompasses more than just happy. You know, it encompasses peace, giving, happiness, a longevity—all of those kinds of things—and positive attitude and energy. Joy brings all of those kinds of things in my mind.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Oh yeah, you brought up a good point. So like you were mentioning how my grandfathers both light up when you give them something, I noticed that every time—well maybe not every time but most of the time—in the Bible, when they talk about joy, it's usually used in the phrase "shout for joy." So there's always some sort of accompaniment of expressing that joy. It's always in the context of sharing that with other people, and so it's kind of like the saying "misery loves company." So that made me wonder about I guess two things: one is joy so powerful that when we feel it we can't help but to express it? Like you have to give this shout for joy? Or is it two, that we have a responsibility to express our joy because just like "misery loves company," just like we said that giving—seeing—others feel joy gives us joy, that when we express our joy other people are able to get joy from us. One of the things that I love, I have a couple of friends who when they smile you have no choice but to smile back at them. I call it a contagious smile… Basically you look at them they smile and you can't help but smile. And it's because they're so full of joy, and seeing that joy makes you joyful or makes me joyful. And so I lean a heavy towards the second part that, I don't know. I mean maybe they're both true if you just have that much joy it spills out. But definitely I feel like when we express our joy and allow other people to see it we give them joy, which is important.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah, I think it does. When you bring joy with you to other people—like they say you can't fight all by yourself, because an argument, unless somebody argues with you, you can't argue. But if you bring joy to a person that may be down and out, and you come with laughter and joy, you tend to lift their spirits, and so it's kind of contagious. They kind of that kind of grab on it and then feel better. So I think it does play that role.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Yeah. Did you guys have any final thoughts that you wanted to leave with the listeners?

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: I think I'm joyed out.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: +👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: 😂

👩🏽 MOM: I think it's better to have joy than to have sadness.

👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: I think it was very joyful, it was really good talking and it was just peaceful and joyful just to sit down and discuss. And most people never sit down and discuss what joy means to them, or even what happiness means to them; they just take it for granted. And I don't think they really think about the whole scope of what it really means

👩🏽 MOM: That's true.

👩🏽 MOM: Thank you guys so much for talking to me about this and agreeing to come on the podcast. It's been a blast. I hope the listeners have enjoyed the family discussion, but have also found ways to get joy and to improve their joy, maybe even just gotten joy from hearing the conversation.

👩🏽 MOM + 👨🏾‍🦱 DAD: Thank you for inviting us.

👩🏽‍🦱 REE: Alright guys, that is all I have for today's episode. Thank you guys for tuning in. The transcripts for this episode will be at www.psalmstogod.com/joy. Don't forget to subscribe to get the newest content, and I'll see you guys next time. 👋🏾